Start dates should be optional

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Comments

9 comments

  • Official comment
    ORCID (APAC)

    Thanks everyone for your feedback. We have temporarily rolled back the requirement for start dates for affiliations. 

    Learn more at: https://orcid.org/blog/2018/11/06/step-back-affiliation-reqs

    Warm regards, 
    The ORCID Team

  • Gabriela Mejias

    Thank you for your suggestion.

    We aren't planning to change this requirement at present, but will be monitoring feedback and will reconsider if there is widespread agreement in the community that start dates should not be required for education activities.

    Warm regards,
    ORCID Community Team

  • Anonymous
    I think the ORCID experience will be significantly improved if one is allowed to omit dates (education, work, etc) if one does not want to list them. If one is allowed to omit all or part of his education or work experience, why should be forced to list dates if he/she does not want to?
  • Anonymous
    Please drop the requirement to provide years on education and employment profile entries. These dates can be used to determine age. Dates of education in particular are correlated to age. Making these fields optional has a is better, but still has the secondary consequence of indicating age. Length of employment may be useful, but start and end dates are not necessary to achieve that and can also be used to indicate age. This information may have been customary in the past, but the timing and length of an undergraduate experience is rarely an appropriate metric for evaluation and should go the way of Social Security Numbers in CVs.
  • Anonymous
    Can you please provide the reasoning for continuing to require specific dates for education and employment? It seems that requiring this information can be seen as a form of age discrimination. If ORCID receives funding from the federal government or is used by the federal government to track people, requiring specific dates that could be easily used to determine age might be considered a violation of the Age Discrimination Act of 1975. I have filed a complaint with TRUSTe.com as this web site suggests and encourage the others requesting the removal of the requirement to enter specific dates for education and employment to do the same.
  • ORCID (EMEA)

    Thanks for your comments, which I have forwarded to ORCID's Privacy Specialist - we will post a more detailed answer here once we hear back from him. ORCID provides open tools that enable transparent and trustworthy connections between researchers, their contributions, and affiliations.The affiliation start date requirement serves this purpose as it helps understand if an individual is currently affiliated with an organization or not.

    Please note that users can mark affiliation information as Trusted parties only or Private if they are concerned about making this information publicly available - this can be done at the individual affiliation level.

    Kind regards,
    ORCID Community Team

  • Anonymous
    This comes at the cost of not being able to even enter affiliation information.
  • Anonymous
    I was disappointed by the response given by Admin. If there is a need to determine whether "an individual is currently affiliated with an organization,” a checkbox indicating this is a more direct and simple solution. Admin also failed to address requiring both start and end dates for education. As stated by others before, dates of degrees have exceedingly high correlations with age. But both start and end dates serve to expose non-traditional students, which can support discrimination based on more than just age, intentional or otherwise. I was further disheartened by the response from Admin that this information can be marked for limited sharing by those not wishing to make date information public. Dates must be entered if entering an employer or school, and those date will be shown if employment and/or education is shared or published. Only the scope of the exposure may be limited, not which information is shared. This is not the free choice Admin asserts. I am quite alarmed, as I believe the whole ORCID community should be, that ORCID is requiring sensitive and personal information in order to participate in the community with the sole justification being that the information can be useful in determining whether an affiliation is current. This is not a meaningful benefit. Given that dates, especially relating to education, can strongly indicate age, and that age discrimination is a very real issue, it is hard to accept that it is reasonable to force the community to expose this sensitive information for a marginal at best benefit. Even those with good intentions exposed to this information can unintentionally and/or unconsciously make discriminatory decisions. Finally, under the naive assumption that the ORCID community is immune to such human imperfection, people leave the community. ORCID has offered nothing to support that requiring dates be associated with employment or education provides anything but a miniscule benefit to the members of the ORCID community. Without a clear and credible argument supporting the benefits of including dates in education and employment, the requirement must be lifted. Until the requirements to specify start and end dates for employment and education are completely eliminated, I will not participate in the ORCID community beyond creating a bare minimum account. I prefer not to take this action as I am an academic and my university is asking faculty to create detailed ORCID profiles, but I view this as a way to support the members of my community (and my friends) who are, or may be, hurt by any sort of discrimination, deliberate or not, resulting from this policy. (An alternate action being entering 1967 and 1975, the years that Congress passed acts banning age discrimination, for all years required from employment and education.) I hope a few of you will join me.
  • ORCID (EMEA)

    Thank you for your feedback, and your patience as we determine how best to address your concerns.

    We are continually working to improve our user experience and trust. At ORCID, we enable connections between you and your contributions using identifiers. However, at present, there are no identifiers for affiliations, so we have to use alternative means to verify this type of connection. In addition to organization name and organization identifiers, we require start and end dates to verify affiliations. We are working with the community on creating infrastructure for alternative forms of verification.

    Until that is available, we recommend that ORCID users who do not wish to make dates public for specific items on their record, to set the sharing status for those items to 'Trusted Parties' (https://support.orcid.org/hc/en-us/articles/360006897614 ).

    We have reviewed our policy with legal counsel to ensure that ORCID is not in violation of any age discriminatory practice. Please see ORCID’s Terms and Conditions Of Use (https://orcid.org/legal), Section 6, which indicates that data in ORCID records may not be used for any illegal purposes. This includes the legislation you have mentioned specifically regarding age discrimination.

    Please look out for updates on our blog (https://orcid.org/blog) and twitter (https://twitter.com/ORCID_Org). Thanks, and please continue to be an active part of the ORCID community.

    Kind regards,
    ORCID Community Team

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